Our guests are Carolyn Horner and Eve Ackerley, the founders of kids shoe sizing app, Jenzy.

John Suder: Today on The Register podcast, we have not one but two guests. It’s a supersized episode. We have the pleasure of talking with Eve Ackerley and Carolyn Horner. They’re the founders of kids’ shoe sizing app, Jenzy.

Eve Ackerley: Hey, how are you?

Carolyn Horner: How’s it going?

John Suder: Very good, very good. And always we have my cohost, Sumo Heavy co-founder and CEO, Mr. Bart Mroz. Let’s dive right in. So guys, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background, where you’re from.

Eve Ackerley: Absolutely. So this is Eve and me, take it back to 2013 I was graduating from Berkeley’s having studied architecture. I decided to work in the field for a little bit before I was quickly looking for a change. And that change came in the form of going abroad and teaching in rural China. So in 2014, I moved, to Yunnan province to teach at a public elementary school and that’s where I met Carolyn.

Carolyn Horner: I had gone to school on the opposite coast. I went to Cornell and graduated in 2014. I had studied Chinese at school and knew that I wanted to go there after graduation. So I joined a program called Teach For China. And Eve and I served as volunteer teachers over there for two years and became really fast friends. We were living in a resource-strained environment, which is, as we’ll come to find out not that dissimilar to a startup. And we also had the experience of returning lots of shoes, bought online, that didn’t fit over there. Our town was so remote that the nearest post office was a 30-minute trek away and nowhere in our village sold our size. Eve’s six foot tall and it was impossible to find a woman’s shoe in that size

We started brainstorming different ways to be able to size your foot from your phone and make it easier to know what size to buy when shopping online. And this was an idea that was swirling in our heads when we moved back to the US. So we moved back to the US in 2016 and I had the experience of taking my two nieces back to school shoe shopping. They’re four and six years old and, or they were at the time, and I thought that it was going to be a breeze and my sister let me go very, which I should have taken as the first sign that it was going to be a nightmare. And after leaving the store and not being confident at all with the shoes that I had bought, I called Eve and said, “We should pursue this idea of a shoe sizing app, but we should start small as in kid shoe small.” And on September 1st I moved down to LA and moved in with Eve’s parents to talk about this idea and it really developed from there.

Carolyn Horner and Eve Ackerly of Jenzy in China
Carolyn Horner and Eve Ackerly in China

John Suder: Let’s take a step back. So you were both in China. That is the craziest kind of casual meeting story I’ve ever heard. So you both had a love of Chinese, Chinese language or how did you both wind up in China? Was it just …

Carolyn Horner: It was really the dumplings that brought us over there.

John Suder: That would take me there.

Eve Ackerley: Both of our parents are entrepreneurs, which is a fun fact about us. But they both also had spent time living abroad when they were younger and it really helped shape their world view. And so for us, it was important as young graduates really wanting to find a unique path in this world to have that experience and rural China was kind of the craziest place to do so. So we had both studied Chinese a little bit and it was a country and a culture that we were really interested in.

John Suder: That’s really remarkable. I’ve never heard founders coming together in such a unique place like that. It’s really a great story.

Carolyn Horner: Thanks.

John Suder: When you got back to the states, what year is this?

Eve Ackerley: We decided to meet in LA on September 1st of 2016.

Carolyn Horner: A really remarkable rendezvous.

John Suder: It’s 2016 and you had kind of knocked around the idea while you’re in China, was that, so did it kind of germinate while you came to America or what was the path from there?

Carolyn Horner: Well, while we were in China, this idea came kind of at the end of our fellowship when we were starting to look for new jobs, but… it was, being over there, there wasn’t the Internet, so we couldn’t spend our days watching Netflix. So Eve and I spent our days talking about business ideas and it was this idea that really stuck and resonated with us. And so we started taking online business courses with the spotty Internet that we did have. We read The Lean Startup and other entrepreneurial books and it seemed like something that we needed to pursue when we got back to the US and so it was really, the experience kids shoe shopping with my nieces that made us pivot from a woman’s shoe sizing app to focus on kids.

John Suder: Do you hear that entrepreneurs? Stop watching Netflix. That’s the best advice that was kind of hidden in there that you could probably get. Stop watching Netflix. Stop playing Call of Duty or whatever, or Fortnight or whatever it is, go read some business books.

So you originally started with just regular people shoes and you more or less pivoted, shall we say, to small, to kids shoes. The reason was why? Because it was an easier intro or what was the genesis of that?

Eve Ackerley: Yeah. When we were first thinking about shoe shopping and why is it so difficult? We put out this question to both of our Facebook, on both of our Facebooks and said “What’s worse? Shopping for your own shoes or shopping for kid’s shoes?” And parents were really quick to respond, “Kid shoe shopping is the worst.”

John Suder: I’m raising my hand over here. I understand.

Eve Ackerley: Wanted to learn more about what makes it so hard and just kids grow really quickly. So every two, three months they might be changing shoes and a lot of physical stores probably where you or Carolyn and I shopped when we were little have closed. So now it’s parents having to drive 45 minutes. It’s not convenient. And then anyone who buys stuff online knows that it’s really hard to know what size. So all of those facts together were really convinced that we should start with kids first or start small.

Carolyn Horner: Yeah.

John Suder: Starting small. You have the little kids who grow really fast, so they’re buying a lot of shoes. So I guess that’s a factor there. How did you come up with the idea of, I guess, what do you consider then? I saw the demo of your app where it’s you use a size comparison, a card next to a foot. Where did that concept come from?

Carolyn Horner: We dove into this world of not only app development but also computer vision and some AI and quickly learned that in order to launch quickly we needed to just create a version of the app that through one photo, you could calculate a foot size, but you needed a standard size reference in the photo. And we tested different objects and just found that the card was, one, a really standard size. If a mom’s using a library card or Costco card, we’re going to know the measurements of it. And two, it would then allow us to only have a sizing process that took one photo and was really optimized for that squirmy child.

John Suder: The squirmy child. Yeah, I saw that. I understand the concept of using standard sized cards. There are actually some eyeglass companies that are doing a similar thing, which I think is really clever in that you’re basically, the customer is out in the wild and you don’t know what they’re going to do with your app. But if you bring something into the real world that you know that it’s three and a half by two, whatever that is, it really kind of nails it down. Once it captures that, how does it determine what the actual size of the child’s foot is?

Eve Ackerley: Yeah. For on the parent’s side, a parent takes that one photo. And so once we have their foot measurements, what we’re doing is we have an entire back end database of all of the shoe measurements. So right now we’re partnered with 22 brands and we have lots of different data points about all those shoes that are offered on our ecommerce store so that we can kind of crossreference and match which shoes are going to be best for that child. So when a mom, once they’ve taken that photo and they’re shopping in the store, we’re able to say, “Hey, in this sandal they should be wearing this size, but in the sneaker they should be wearing this size.”

John Suder: I saw there was some kind of recommendation engine on there. So is it that there are only so many variables of sizes and widths of kids feet or how does that work out? What’s the margin of error on that?

Carolyn Horner: So every child grows differently and the measurements of their foot will also be different. And so that’s why through that one photo, we attach key, get demographic information about the child as well as their foot measurements to know their stage of development and the healthiest shoes to put them in. And so with the shoes that we’re onboarding onto our store, we not only capture the internal measurements of that shoe, but we also consider factors like sole type and lace type and material. That all goes into one algorithm that does the matching automatically.

John Suder: Yeah, I saw that on the up and on the demo. That was pretty interesting. So if you recommend a shoe for someone and my little demo girl or boy, I think his name is Biff. Biff was born five years ago. Biff, he’s a real pain in the neck, but Biff, you recommended some sandals for Biff. So let’s pretend that Biff buys, we go to buy these sandals. What is the ecommerce part of it? Are you working with brands and drop shipping or how does that work?

Carolyn Horner: So when we launched Jenzy in 2018 we had 10 brands that we were working with in a direct ship capacity. And as a small retailer, that was the easiest way to start working with them and the fastest too. However, over the past few months we’ve really transitioned toward an inventory light model and we’re starting to develop more drop ship relationships with brands, which means that when a shoe order comes to us, we’ll then push that order to the vendor who fulfills it.

John Suder: Is it basically seamless? So the customer still sees Jenzy packaging and branding and all that kind of stuff?

Carolyn Horner: Yeah. On the customer side, we maintain the whole experience from sizing through checkout and that’s all automated and we’re still working with brands in a more automated way to make sure that orders are sent as quickly as possible to them so they can fulfill them.

John Suder: That’s pretty awesome. Let me back up again. Where did the name Jenzy come from?

Eve Ackerley: Yeah, this was fun. As soon as we realized or kind of focused in on the zero to six demographic, Generation Z. We just loved that Jenzy and wanted to kind of form one word that was easy and memorable. So we had to change the spelling a little bit so no one was saying Genzie or something.

John Suder: No, that’s great. I really like it. I really like the name. So now you’ve got the idea, you’ve developed everything from, let’s just say concept to launch. How long did that take?

Carolyn Horner: So, if we say the concept was September of 2016, we had a first working version of the app, which was really just a camera screen by early 2017 and we spent the full year beta testing. So we were at parks and at daycares and at the homes of moms, really looking at how they were using the app and reiterating and retesting based on what we saw. So the largest beta test we had was in October of 2017 with about 100 beta testers. That gave us enough work to, and we had some development hiccups that we can talk about as well. But really to get us on track to launch in July of 2018. So we’ve been in the app store for seven months.

John Suder: That’s pretty quick. So let’s talk about the development process. Now you’ve got the idea and you see in your head how this is gonna work. Who do you go to for development? Were these friends or did you outsource overseas or how did that work?

Eve Ackerley: Yeah. Both Carolyn and I had a lot to learn about app development. So we went and found a mentor to kind of guide us through these first steps. But he was great because he connected us with an offshore team. So we worked with that offshore team for about a year. And really, they were awesome to kind of test, re-test and learn exactly what Jenzy needed to look like. But like Carolyn mentioned, in October 2017 we did that large beta test and we met an awesome dad who also happened to be a user experience designer. So he looked at the app and got really excited about the product and proposed working with us on this kind of rebuild we were doing for launch. And he was also the one who introduced us to our current CTO, Dan. The two of them had worked together on a number of projects, other apps, other digital ecommerce projects. And so we were really excited about working with the two of them.

Carolyn Horner: Yeah.

John Suder: Another serendipitous meeting, it sounds like.

Carolyn Horner: It was.

John Suder: That’s really great. So now you have a CTO and you’re working with a development team. I noticed some press that you are from Philly. Are you still based in the Philly area?

Carolyn Horner: Yeah, we’re in Philly, based out of the center city WeWork here, but Philly was a really great place, not only because my nieces and nephews lived here and they were readily able to volunteer their small feat, but … we joined the Philly startup leaders community and we were part of their accelerator last year and really started to form our professional network in this community. And now that our designer is here as well as some people on our tech team, it’s really just been the best place to stay.

Carolyn Horner and Eve Ackerly in front of  City Hall, Philadelphia
Carolyn Horner and Eve Ackerly in front of City Hall, Philadelphia

John Suder: Philly’s really great. It’s come a long way. It used to be known as more, just more medicine and science, but now the startup community is really kind of blowing up. Not exactly New York or San Francisco, but everybody knows each other and it’s certainly easy to find somebody if you’re looking for somebody to help you out. So that’s really great.

Carolyn Horner: Exactly.

John Suder: You built the site. I guess the site was the easy part. The framework of the app was the kind of the hard part. What was the biggest challenges that you guys had?

Eve Ackerley: Yeah, we, one year into it developing Jenzy, Carolyn and I were getting familiar with different frameworks would be building on and all the different languages. Developing languages as well as getting into the thick of computer vision. But we had been building on a framework called Xamarin just for the purpose of being able to deploy both to Android and two IOS. We had done this beta test and we had gotten a lot of feedback and we were working with Sal at that point to kind of create a whole new set of screens that we would launch with, but it was going through these screens with Sal that we quickly realized that we should be building on another framework a little bit more common in the US and that’s React Native.

So he was really familiar with React and had a lot of good things to say about the flexibility of it. But it was at that point that we knew we also kind of needed somebody with a super strong front end development capabilities and that wasn’t really the team that we were currently working with. So he was great. He was able to introduce us to a local Philly developer, which we love extending our Philly team. And from there we had, we knew he had a strong background in React, but also a strong network of developers that we can also work with and bring on to other parts of it project.

John Suder: Sometimes the founders are just known to have the ‘idea’ and the ‘bright light’ and that’s about it. It sounds like you’re familiar with development language. Is this something that you learned on the job or was, do you have a background in that at all or is it just we have to learn this stuff and now we know what it is?

Carolyn Horner: I think from the experience of building on a platform that really wasn’t the best solution for Jenzy and realizing that that was going to be time and money spent working to change it, it made us really that with those big decisions like what platform is your app going to be built on, we really needed to become a part of the conversation and understand that language to have conversations with our tech team that we understood and that we didn’t need a translator for. And the stuff with computer vision, we just find fun and we, it’s kind of nice not being technical founders because we don’t really know what’s not possible and what is …

John Suder: You don’t have any limitations. Yeah, that’s great.

Carolyn Horner: Exactly. And so we really rely on everyone else to say, “That’s not going to happen.”

John Suder: Excellent Entrepreneurs, this is your second tip of the day, learn the languages and you might have fun.

Now the app is launched, let’s talk about customer acquisition. I know that you said you did a bunch of beta testing, but let’s talk about how you get your first customers. The first ones that actually paid, not your beta customers. Your, “Hi, I’m a mom for Midwest and I’m buying some shoes on Jenzy.”

Bart Mroz: Or your nieces.

John Suder: Or your nieces. Was probably your niece, right?

Eve Ackerley: Family and friends are great customers.

Carolyn Horner: They were customer one through 10 for sure. However, customer 11 was someone we had never heard of before and I think when that order came in, even I spent 20 minutes on Facebook and Linkedin being like, “Where did she come from?”

John Suder: Trying to see if it was real?

Carolyn Horner: Yeah.

John Suder: That’s what I would do.

Carolyn Horner: Was it a robot? I don’t know. But that again had been word of mouth and through having some great press through launch. Again, the core of our customers really was in the northeast, the   area, and it was also a process of sending them shoes and then writing them a follow up email just asking how they heard of us and if they would be interested in posting a blurb about us on their mom groups and this organic strategy of finding mom groups, realizing that every mom is connected to at least three of them on Facebook and leveraging them to go forward is, was the most effective way for us to really expand our customer base through lunch.

John Suder: That’s a really smart approach and you’re exactly right about the mom groups and the strength of the mom groups. Word of mouth is strong, but once you get into those groups and you get a good rep, I mean, things can really take off. So I think that was really smart.

Carolyn Horner: Totally.

John Suder: Now you’ve got orders, you’ve got the mom groups. They’re kind of touting your praises and business is coming in. Was there a point when you knew that, yeah, okay, this is what we’re going to do? That it was going to succeed, that it was gonna work. Was there that point? Or are you still kind of still crossing your fingers and hoping that you get through another month? I mean, where are you guys at now?

Eve Ackerley: One of the fun moments was, actually during that beta test, we were shipping shoes and some great family and friends who are making orders and being supportive. One of my cousins had ordered shoes for his daughter. And we got an email about a week later and the subject line read, “It works.” And in the email, it said, “Received the shoes, they fit.” He had a picture of his daughter wearing the shoes. And at that point, that was kind of validation on the customer’s side. That what we had set out to build was actually working for our customers. A couple of months later as we were prepping for launching on the app store, we rolled out a new website and an app demo video kind of showing what the product would look like. And sure enough, within a day or two we received emails from a couple of brands that we’ve been interested in asking how they could get on the Jenzy platform. So that was a really cool moment for us on the brand side.

John Suder: How many brands are you guys working with now?

Carolyn Horner: We have 22 brand partnerships.

John Suder: Here’s the flip side: Any sleepless nights wondering “what have I done?” Any doubts or is it, you have that founder’s confidence?

Carolyn Horner: We definitely have many sleepless nights and I think as an entrepreneur there really doesn’t go, a day doesn’t go by where you don’t feel like there’s some issue that is going to just explode and the world will end. But I think we’ve never been sleepless about a few things and that’s each other and we’ve always been confident in the two of us as well as the team that we’ve built and we’ve always, always, always been confident that we’re solving a real problem and knowing that we have parents looking for a solution, gives us the confidence to move forward and test new things. It’s when we test those new things that we become a little unconfident and we’re constantly having to learn different languages and do things that are unfamiliar to us. And that can be pretty daunting sometimes. I think if you’re confident in the main foundation of your company then there’s really nothing to keep you up at night that isn’t going to make the world actually explode.

John Suder: Excellent answer. And it seems like having, the people that I interview, it seems like if it’s a solo founder, obviously he’sdriving, he’s, his fuel is ego. But with co-founders it’s a little bit different. You’ve got to have that dynamic there. And it seems like you guys have that and that you have some trust and you have, you basically are on the same page. But are there times when you guys are just like, “I don’t agree with what you’re saying.” What happens then? How do you manage conflict resolution being co-founders?

Carolyn Horner: I think the first two years of the company, Eve and I didn’t have titles. We were both co-founders and we were both learning the tech side of the business and the marketing side and that was key for us to create a plan for what Jenzy should look like. However, recently since launch we started fundraising and I think this is a moment that happens a lot with co-founding teams is that one person starts to take over the job of talking with investors and communicating a business strategy. Whereas the other co-founder is really running the company. I’m not going to say which job is more fun, although I’m doing fundraising right now and I’m convinced that Eve has the more fun job and we’ve definitely noticed there’s more tension now between us or it’s more common for us to kind of be on different pages because we’re doing two separate things. So we’ve kind of changed our schedule to be able to make room every day for us to connect and be on the same page. So the rest of the team and what we’re doing flows naturally.

John Suder: Great points. That brings me into my next question. What’s the biggest challenge you guys have right now? Is it time or is it just trying to get everything done or what challenges are you seeing in the business or in your just ‘every day getting it done’? What’s the biggest challenge right now?

Eve Ackerley: Yeah, I think startups are always strapped for time. You always wish you had an additional 24 hours in the day. We launched on the app store in July of last year. So for us, 2019 is all about going out and finding customers and spreading the word. We haven’t really, actually back in November, we partnered up with an awesome digital marketing agency in Chicago to make sure we had a really strong marketing or online marketing plan. So getting into paid search and paid social. Also as an online business, it’s really important to find creative ways to connect with customers. So we’ve been leading a charge on daycare and preschool partnerships since we’re very focused on that zero to six age range and just calling and connecting with local daycares. But also going out to new cities and areas and really trying to get our name through that network.

John Suder: It sounds like you’re doing some pretty smart things that are smart moves, kind of bootstrapping your marketing. How do you plan on future growth? You said something about financing. What are you looking to do in terms of financing and what do you want to do with that money?

Carolyn Horner: We’re raising our first round of outside investment right now and we’re looking to close that round in the next couple of weeks, which will be exciting because maybe I can go back to working with the tech and marketing teams, but I think that’s what we’re most looking forward to in terms of our next milestone and using that money to propel Jenzy to find those customers digitally and more organically. Also bring on new brands to our store to offer customers a greater assortment of shoes and then really starting to plan what the next tech rollout for Jenzy will look like.

John Suder: What’s your biggest takeaway working with Jenzy?

Eve Ackerley: I think if someone said, “You’re going to have to work 10 times as hard to achieve success.” They were absolutely true. So over, I think, the past two years we reached a critical milestone which was launching on the app store, but we saw just how hard and how much time and effort really goes into reaching a milestone. So I think the next milestone that we’re going after is getting this outside round of investment. And again, we’re learning just how much effort goes into fundraising. So to reach your goals, you will have to work 10 times as hard. But it’s always fun and there’s a lot to learn.

John Suder: What do you guys think of the state of the ecommerce industry right now? What kind of trends are you seeing? Any kind of red flags that you’re seeing in the next year in terms of either economy or atmosphere or anything like that?

Carolyn Horner: We focused primarily on our demographic of customers, which are working moms with young kids at home. And first and foremost they’re digitally native and they’re using their phones to make purchases. And so the first thing that comes to our mind and your mind as well, probably, is millennials and there’s 13 million millennials with young kids and by 2030 80% of the millennial generation will have young kids at home and they’re really not only looking for healthy products for their kids, but they’re also using disposable income more and more so to make those health conscious purchases. We’re really excited about the growing number of millennial parents who are using their phones to buy things but also looking to make healthy products, healthy checkout, healthy purchases for their kids.

John Suder: That’s a great point about the digitally native and it seems like you’re in the right niche for that because kids never stop coming and everybody that’s born today has got a phone in their hands. That’s a great spot to be in. So let’s kind of get into the personal thing and you’re, being an entrepreneur is demanding work. What’s a typical day like for you guys? How do you manage your time? I know we kind of briefly touched on that, but how do you really find a balance?

Carolyn Horner: Yeah, and I’ll follow up on the point I was making before of Eve and I really instituting everyday meetings where either for a half hour or an hour and a half, the two of us will meet. And that’s pretty much how we start off every day. From there I’ll be focused on fundraising and talking to investors and Eve will be focusing on working with our marketing and tech teams. And again, it’s kind of interesting because I’m talking to investors about what the five year and six year plan of Jenzy looks like. Whereas Aedes talking about the five day or five month plan. And so that’s why those meetings in the morning are really important to make sure that, ultimately, we’re speaking the same language.

John Suder: When you’re not working, how are you kind of straightening your brain out? How are you getting through to the next day? Is there just something that you guys lean on that says, “This kind of helps me get through the day.” Some people run. Some people do yoga…

Eve Ackerley: I think early on somebody said, “What are your priorities?” And the two of us both listed off five or six things and they said, “You can really only have three. Six is too many.” Jenzy probably being the first one, for me it’s health, and my family and friend relationships, but just always kind of having that at the forefront of my mind and always taking maybe an hour in the morning to go do something for my health or call somebody that I haven’t talked to in a while. But when you boil it down to kind of three things, you make sure that you have time in the day for each of those. But if it’s six, you might run out of time.

John Suder: Time is not on our side. So let’s talk to the young entrepreneurs out there that may be listening. What’s the one piece of advice each of you would give to someone who was struggling to move the idea forward?

Carolyn Horner: First I would try to get to the root of the problem. So why are they having trouble getting their idea forward? The first step that Eve and I always take is to find someone who loves our product or loves a feature of our product and find out why they love it. And so that person should probably find that one person who really is is drawn into what they’re doing.

John Suder: The one true fan.

Carolyn Horner: Yeah, totally. The one true fan and then you ask them why they love it because that answer might not be what you expect. And then simultaneously is to find someone who isn’t going to buy into what you’re doing or isn’t really sold yet and figure out the root of that. When we launched Jenzy, about two months later, Eve had 25 conversations with three groups of people. One set of customers who had sized and shopped with us, another group of people who had just sized but hadn’t gone through checkout and another group of people who hadn’t even downloaded the app. And so finding out the motivations behind each people in those groups can really help roadmap your plane going forward.

John Suder: Awesome, great advice. What’s next for Jenzy?

Eve Ackerley: Well, in the immediate term we’re really excited because we’re rolling out a new version of the app. I’ve been working with our tech team and thinking about how are we can optimize the sizing and shopping experience, make it even faster, even quicker. So we’re going to be rolling out that new version really soon. And then as we get ready for, get into spring and summer, we have some awesome bundles on the store and trying to make it really easy for parents to get all of your seasonal shoes in one go. So anybody that can go on there, find sandals or sneakers for upcoming summer camp and really quickly able to get those three shoes and be on their way.

John Suder: The one question I didn’t ask. What’s the biggest season? Is it school time or is it summer?

Carolyn Horner: I would say back to school The two are kind of tied and kid shoe season, the kids shoe industry is really tied by season, but back to school is huge. Especially with certain requirements at some schools.

John Suder: I was going to say because of a lot of the parochial schools around here are, you have to have certain shoes and I guess, do you do any kind of partnerships with schools?

Carolyn Horner: Not yet John, but that is, it’s in the works.

John Suder: It’s on the chalkboard, awesome.

Eve Ackerley: It’s on the chalkboard.

John Suder: Now we’ve got some fun questions. What would you guys be doing if you weren’t doing this? This being an entrepreneur, running an ecommerce app?

Carolyn Horner: Well, I always say I would be a CIA agent but, and work for the CIA, but Eve kind of rolls her eyes because she knows that I’m scared to go into a dark apartment by myself and there’s no way that I …

John Suder: You’d be a CIA agent that only works during the day.

Carolyn Horner: Exactly.

Eve Ackerley: She might be limited. I always joke that we would probably just be doing some other business, maybe even more inspired by our meeting in China of creating a fast-casual dumpling chain. So maybe that can be a post show biz.

John Suder: I’m down with some Jenzy dumplings. You just let me know when that’s open. I’ll beta test the hell out of your dumplings.

Bart Mroz: We will taste test everything.

John Suder: Everything.

Eve Ackerley: Okay, awesome.

John Suder: Final question. What’s the last thing you bought online? You’re not allowed to say shoes.

Carolyn Horner: Okay. Or anything related to shoes because I just bought some more shelving so our apartment can really turn into a full-blown shoe warehouse. The last thing we read, or the last thing I read was Bad Blood. And normally I buy or I get books from the library, but the waiting list for this book was so long that I just bought it. So I totally bought the book Bad Blood. And Eve I read it simultaneously.

John Suder: That’s the book about Theranos. I absolutely loved that book. For a business book, it read like a dramatic page-turner, I couldn’t wait to, every night, to sit and read that book. I will totally recommend this book. It’s Bad Blood by John Carreyrou. It’s the story of Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos and that whole scam. There’s so many twists and turns. It’s so incredible and it’s still going on. It’s going to make a great movie.

Carolyn Horner: Yeah.

Eve Ackerley: Yeah.

John Suder: This will bring us to the end of the interview. So, guys, you want to give us a shameless plug? This is where you can mention URLs, social media handles. Anything you want to say, time is yours.

Eve Ackerley: Absolutely. Can’t say enough good things about Jenzy and parents, you pick the shoes, we’ll pick the perfect size and be super confident that whatever you’re getting in the mail is going to fit great. We have 22 brands, ones that you love, like See Kai Run, Pediped, Saucony. So visit us on the app store, free to download. You can also follow us at shop Jenzy on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Or you can go and visit us at Jenzy dot com and that’s J E N Z Y dot com. So we’d love to, try us out. Let us know how your experience is and maybe some, post a pic of some new shoes or your feet.

John Suder: Alright, you got that, parents? Go to Jenzy. It’s, it’s spelled J E N Z Y at Jenzy and we’ve been speaking with Eve Ackerley and Carolyn Horner, the founders of Jenzy. Guys, thanks for coming on the show.

Carolyn Horner: Thank you, John. Thank you, Bart.

Eve Ackerley: Thanks so much.

Bart Mroz: Thank you.

John Suder: Alright, we’ll see you next time.